Colonel William A. Phillips

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• Disclosure: I am an employee of NerdWallet. Some of the information on this page is very out of date -- particularly in regards to our financial operations. We'd like to work with the Wikipedia community to update it. I've outlined proposed edits below, aiming to be an neutral as possible and including references. I look forward to the Wiki editors' guidance on next steps. Thanks for helping us be responsible members of the Wiki community! NerdyNicole (talk) 21:38, 24 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed new introduction: Delete: NerdWallet(.)com is a personal finance website which is branded as helping consumers make money decisions. Categories of coverage include education, finance, health, investing, and shopping.

Add: NerdWallet is a website that covers personal finance topics and offers recommendations for consumers and small businesses. It says its mission is "to bring clarity to all of life's financial decisions."^[1]

In 2014, nearly 30 million people used NerdWallet for tools, research and advice about credit cards, banking, insurance, mortgages, education, health, investing, and shopping.^[2]

In May 2015, NerdWallet announced a $64 million round of Series A funding.^[3]

Proposed edits to Financial Operations: Delete: NerdWallet is profitable and independent, with no outside investors. (<this is no longer true)

Add: NerdWallet was bootstrapped, and within a few years became profitable ^[4].

In May 2015, the company raised a $64 million Series A round, led by Institutional Venture Partners with participation from RRE Ventures, iGlobe Partners and angel investors including Arjan Schutte of Core Innovation Capital, Aaron Lee, Brian Lee, Dharmesh Thakker, Emilie Choi, Eric Bahn, Josh Tonderys, Mike Grishaver, Parker Barrile, Raymie Stata, Richard Jun, Ryan Roslansky, Scott Roberts, Shirshanka Das and Sumir Meghani. ^[5]. The company also secured a $33 million revolving loan from Silicon Valley Bank.

NerdWallet also appointed new board advisors Vikram Pandit, former head of Citigroup; James D. Robinson III, former American Express CEO; and David Henke, former SVP of Engineering and Operations at LinkedIn and Yahoo. ^[6]

The round was one of the largest Series A of the year. Since 2014, only eight U.S. startups raised Series A funding rounds of $50 million or more. ^[7]

NerdyNicole (talk) 21:38, 24 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Nicole, I'd be happy to work with you on this article. I've done some clean up today. I'm glad to see there are additional sources reporting on this company. Without them the article might be a candidate for deletion. I don't have time today to do anything further but I'll try to come back in the next few days and help. Just a heads up. I don't use content suggested by others. What I will do is look at the sources you have provided and then summarize them in the article using my own judgment and knowledge of WP guidelines and policies. I understand that you have provided suggested content only with the intention of being helpful. Thank you!-- — Keithbob • Talk • 19:03, 26 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

 Done-- — Keithbob • Talk • 16:18, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks KeithBob! One small edit - the company was founded as a web application, not a mobile application. Thanks! 173.228.120.2 (talk) 19:10, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You are welcome!

Resolved

-- — Keithbob • Talk • 20:51, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20131203210349/http://money.cnn.com:80/galleries/2010/moneymag/1002/gallery.Best_money_websites.moneymag/5.html to http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2010/moneymag/1002/gallery.Best_money_websites.moneymag/5.html

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My name is Julianne and I work in the communications department at NerdWallet. I'd like to propose separating the NerdWallet Company page and Tim Chen's description into another page. A lot of Tim's bio is focused on his upbringing and isn't relevant to the NerdWallet company page. Pinging @Klbrain: since you merged the pages in January. I hope to propose some other updates to the pages in the future as well. Thank you. Julianne at NerdWallet (talk) 21:16, 11 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the ping, Julianne. The issue was that Tim's page didn't have evidence of independent notability, as defined by WP:N (see also WP:1E). The choice back then was either to delete the material on Tim's page or merge to the primary reason for notability: NerdWallet. If there was evidence of Tim's notability that was distinct from NerdWallet then a split would be reasonable. Another view on the matter is that a founder's history is indeed relevant to the history of the company, in that it might contribute to its inspiration, if not its modern face. Klbrain (talk) 21:53, 11 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Klbrain: Understand your reasoning. Thanks for replying. Instead of separating the pages could we update the content on Tim's bio to include less editorialized descriptions about his management style, replacing the content with more background on his career history and starting NerdWallet. I'd like to propose this as a replacement. Julianne at NerdWallet (talk) 00:19, 18 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

That was a helpful draft. I've moved first 2 paragraphs onto the article, as it does make the article better. I've added your notes about the financial history in the last paragraph to the company history section (as it seems to fit better with the company). I haven't removed the last paragraph of the article on the grounds that it is tightly referenced, pulling quotes from what an independent source, and while I agree that there is some editorializing, it could also be viewed as a paraphrase. The sense of that paragraph seems to match the sense of the article closely, and hence I couldn't see a reason to delete it. Also, I didn't move the image as it seems to be a redlink; it would be nice to have one on the page. Klbrain (talk) 22:41, 18 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks @Klbrain: for updating the content. I just uploaded a new image for Tim Chen, fixing what was a redlink in the draft, as well as emailed a declaration of consent. Julianne at NerdWallet (talk) 21:24, 15 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to propose this draft for the history and products and services sections of the NerdWallet page. Compared to the current article, the proposed draft has fewer awards/rankings, routine executive appointments, and uncited content. It instead has more comprehensive encyclopedic information about the company’s history and service, as well as better copyediting, structure, format and flow. Thank you. Pinging @Klbrain: who helped me in the past. Julianne at NerdWallet (talk) 21:46, 8 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Julianne! Thanks for the suggested additions. I've implemented most of them. Some of the proposed text was self serving and not appropriate to my eye so I left it out. Thanks again. -- — Keithbob • Talk • 21:19, 7 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The recent edits have greatly improved the article. For a while, I was concerned that it was a vanity article. It is now much more like other WP articles on corporations. Good job. Constant314 (talk) 21:26, 7 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Constant314 , glad you like my revisions. :-) -- — Keithbob • Talk • 21:41, 7 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your edits to the page @KeithBob:. I would like to propose a few additional changes located here in order to:

• incorporate shorter more neutral versions of some of the content that was trimmed
• correct that Cash Back is a feature not an app
• suggest removing the administration section, which is filled with unimportant executive appointments

I also made some changes here regarding minor corrections, grammar, etc. that I figured no one would disagree with. Would love any feedback on the proposed revisions indicated here. Julianne at NerdWallet (talk) 23:57, 15 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Chen was born in 1983 in Houston, Texas.Apte, Poornima (May 10, 2018). "This King Midas of Finance Says the 'Game Is Rigged'". OZY. Retrieved August 18, 2018.</ref> His parents were first-generation American immigrants.^[1] When Chen was 10, his family moved to Atlanta, Georgia and attended Chamblee Charter High School.^[2] Chen attended college at Stanford University, where he earned a Bachelor's degree in Economics.^[3][2] At Stanford, Chen developed an interest in entrepreneurship, but became a hedge fund analyst instead.^[1]

Chen's career began as an equity research analyst at Credit Suisse^[4] in New York City.^[5] He worked at hedge funds for four years,^[6] before getting laid off from JAT Capital during the Great Recession.^[2] The idea for NerdWallet came when his sister asked him for advice on what credit card she should get with lower foreign transaction fees.^[1] He grew frustrated by the limited information available online, so he compiled a spreadsheet breaking down her options, which became the basis of NerdWallet.^[2] This prompted Chen to start NerdWallet in 2009 with his childhood friend Jake Gibson.^[1][2][5]

I've removed the above content from the article. It's personal life info not relevant to an article about the company. If and when Chen has enough notability to deserve a BLP article then this content can be incorporated. -- — Keithbob • Talk • 20:50, 7 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. Constant314 (talk) 19:45, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In the products and services section in the last sentence it says "In 2018, NerdWallet began offering an app called, Cash Back, which returns cash to a user whenever they shop at participating merchants." Cash Back is not the name of the app it's a feature in the NerdWallet app. I'd like to request the sentence be changed to "In 2018, NerdWallet began offering a feature called, Cash Back, which returns cash to a user whenever they shop at participating merchants." Julianne at NerdWallet (talk) 21:13, 14 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That is more detail than usual. Cash back is feature of many financial services. If Nerd Wallet was the first to offer it, it would be notable. Constant314 (talk) 22:52, 14 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. I'd like to request adding "The site receives more than 100 million visitors each year. Apte, Poornima (May 10, 2018). "This King Midas of Finance Says the 'Game Is Rigged'". OZY. Retrieved December 6, 2018." at the end of the first paragraph in the products and services section. This addition helps explain the significance of the topic, since NerdWallet is a website and app the number of users is the de-facto way of explaining why the topic is significant.Julianne at NerdWallet (talk) 22:00, 2 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. I wanted to follow up on this. Thank you for your help. @Constant314: @Keithbob: Julianne at NerdWallet (talk) 23:55, 22 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

NerdWallet had 3 Wall Street Journal citations for Nerdwallet (2011, 2015, 2016).

At some point after the 3rd WSJ item, http://www.NerdWallet . com was blacklisted.

Any info re why http:// www.nerdwallet (dot)com (was/is?) blacklisted? Pi314m (talk) 05:12, 13 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No, I don't know why it would be blacklisted. It seems odd. You might try an inquiry at the TeaHouse. Folks there are usually eager to help. -- — Keithbob • Talk • 19:35, 13 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

What do yo mean by "blacklisting"? Constant314 (talk) 23:27, 13 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Wikipedia editors, I’d like to suggest the below updates to the NerdWallet page on behalf of our client. We do have a relationship with NerdWallet and want to be transparent about that so am hoping we can collaborate on objective updates to the page based on notable references.

For the History section, we suggest adding the following text to the end of the section based on the included citations:

"In August 2020, the company expanded its footprint into the U.K. by acquiring Know Your Money, a Norwich-based startup that provides a similar range of comparison and information tools geared at people who live in the U.K.^[1] In November 2020, NerdWallet acquired small business loan marketplace, Fundera.^[2] In 2021, NerdWallet partnered with Inclusiv, a nonprofit network of community development credit unions, and committed to move millions of dollars to local credit unions to advance financial equity.^[3]"

For the Administration section, we suggest adding the following text to the end of the section based on the included citation. (Note that citation 4 is the reference source for both sentences):

"In 2020, former eBay executive Lauren St. Clair joined NerdWallet as CFO. The company added Lynne Laube and Jennifer Ceran to its Board of Directors.^[4]"

Thank you! CameronSays (talk) 15:12, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

First, you are correct to ask others—if you haven't already, see Wikipedia:Conflict of interest. Second, I would wikilink the source sites in the references—those that have articles (TechCrunch and Fast Company). Third, since your last reference is used for two different (though adjacent sentences), I would name it and use twice (once per sentence), with the shortened name for the second instance—see Wikipedia:Citing sources#Repeated citations. Lastly, as a (very) minor side note, section titles, as with article titles, are in sentence case (e.g., "Suggested edits to 'History' and 'Administration'").

In editing the NerdWallet article just now, I noticed that the "Revenue" (2017) and "Employees" (2018) fields in the infobox at the top of the article need updating. If you have more recent information, that would be good to add. —DocWatson42 (talk) 00:59, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@DocWatson42: thank you very much for the review! I appreciate you linking the COI page as well. Yes, I have previously disclosed the COI on my user page and mentioned my relationship to NerdWallet above, but if I should use the "Connected contributor (paid) template" here on the talk page as well I am happy to do so. Thank you for your suggestions to the references as well. I have updated the references below. Thank you also for suggesting the update to the Revenue and Employees field in the infobox. I am checking to see if we have this information available with appropriate 3rd party sources. Thank you again for your help here. If you are able to implement these suggested edits that would be much appreciated, but please feel free to let me know if additional changes are needed.

For the History section, we suggest adding the following text to the end of the section based on the included citations:

"In August 2020, the company expanded its footprint into the U.K. by acquiring Know Your Money, a Norwich-based startup that provides a similar range of comparison and information tools geared at people who live in the U.K.^[1] In November 2020, NerdWallet acquired small business loan marketplace, Fundera.^[2] In 2021, NerdWallet partnered with Inclusiv, a nonprofit network of community development credit unions, and committed to move millions of dollars to local credit unions to advance financial equity.^[3]"

For the Administration section, we suggest adding the following text to the end of the section based on the included citation. (Note that citation 4 is the reference source for both sentences):

"In 2020, former eBay executive Lauren St. Clair joined NerdWallet as CFO.^[4] The company added Lynne Laube and Jennifer Ceran to its Board of Directors.^[4]"

CameronSays (talk) 15:31, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@DocWatson42: hello again, to follow up on my previous note, we checked on updated data on Revenue and Employees for Nerdwallet. The Revenue number currently in the Infobox is the most recent data released publicly, but for Employees the updated number as of October 2019 is 384, as per Fortune_(magazine)^[1] Is there anything else helpful that I could provide, or would it be possible for you to kindly implement these edits on our behalf? Thank you again for your time!

CameronSays (talk) 17:03, 25 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I apologize for taking so long to reply—it's one of my faults. Regarding the declaration of COI, that should be fine. If the numbers for revenue and employees are up to date, that is all I ask—it's something that seems to be neglected in company articles, which is why I queried you about [it]. In the reference above, use the pipe trick and change [[Fortune_(magazine)]] to [[Fortune_(magazine)|Fortune]] (=Fortune). I will try to get back to you later about making the actual changes. In the meantime, if haven't already, see User:DocWatson42/Help for tips (and my opinions on best practices). —DocWatson42 (talk) 04:25, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@DocWatson42: Thank you very much for getting back to me! I have adjusted that reference inline above with the pipe trick per your request. If you are indeed able to help make the actual changes that would be much appreciated. I will review your Help document as well. Very helpful! Thank you! CameronSays (talk) 15:51, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@CameronSays: You're welcome. I finally got around to making the changes we've been discussing, along with going over and cleaning up the existing references (as you've been notified by my edit summary). Please review the changes, and inform me of anything else that you see needs to be done. (E.g., updating the revenue if newer figures are released.) —DocWatson42 (talk) 01:41, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@CameronSays: Hello? —DocWatson42 (talk) 01:25, 1 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Revert of edit of 30th April 2022 - Mchicago (talk) 21:18, 2 May 2022 (UTC) - I reverted the edit that was made a couple days ago because its just a rant against the company, with no supporting claims. Whilst some may have substance, it needs cross referencing against reliable external sources (such as trade journals, or news articles), but I think quite a few of the statements made about nerd-wallet were factually wrong (I don't work for NerdWallet or have any connection to them, but I do work in the financial industry).[reply]

Hi there, I'm a NerdWallet employee seeking to make improvements to the company article. As you can see from previous posts on this Talk page, NerdWallet is familiar with disclosed conflict-of-interest editing. I'll be following the same process as my predecessors: suggesting changes and letting the site's independent editor community determine the validity of those suggestions. I've added myself to this Talk page's list of COI editors and you can read my full disclosure by visiting my user page.

My first suggested edits are to the Administration section. I've put together a revised section draft, which you can view by clicking the dropdown here:

My draft differs from the current section in the following ways:

1. Removes mention of Tim Chen serving on National Foundation for Credit Counseling board, as that's no longer the case.
2. Adds two new sentences that identify company's current leadership (Lauren StClair [correct spelling], Kevin Yuann, and Lynee Luque), and NerdWallet's employee count as of Jan. '23.
3. Clarifies passage about 2013-14 structural reset, to make clear what kind of changes were instituted following dismissal of 11 employees in Dec. '13.
4. Lightly clarifies passage about 2017 layoffs, so that it's slightly easier to follow.
5. Removes sentence about Lauren StClair joining company as CFO in 2020, as her role is now covered earlier in the section.
6. Adds mention of workplace awards NerdWallet has received from Inc. ('19 thru '22) and Fortune ('21 and '22).

I'm going to flag down User:DocWatson42, who worked on this section with a previous representative of the company in 2021, and User:Ptrnext, who recently updated the article's infobox with fresh financial numbers. Any other interested editor is welcome to jump in as well. I will answer questions and/or make fixes to my draft copy as necessary. Thanks! KB at NerdWallet (talk) 16:10, 20 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Partly done: I find the last paragraph too promotional Lightoil (talk) 03:12, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

User:Lightoil: Thanks for reviewing and implementing most of this request. I really appreciate the help. KB at NerdWallet (talk) 20:02, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I'm back to request updates to the article's History section. I'll put my proposed draft in the dropdown below, and then detail all the pertinent differences between what I'm proposing and what currently exists on the page:

My draft differs from the current section in the following ways:

1. Adds some new background information to the first paragraph re: the company's origins
2. Replaces vague language about NerdWallet's circa 2010 growth with more specific language
3. Adds details about the company developing content for its website (namely, hiring ex-journalists)
4. Adds mention that AboutLife was NW's first acquisition
5. Rephrases the passage about Know Your Life, to make it more informative and less promotional-sounding
6. Lightly rephrases the IPO passage, and adds figures re: what the IPO raised
7. Adds user numbers as of May 2023

Because User:Lightoil handled my previous request above, I'll ask them if they're interested in fielding this one as well. But obviously, anyone without a COI can jump in here and either review and implement my suggested changes, or let me know how this draft can be improved upon. I'm happy to respond to any feedback the Wiki editor community might have! KB at NerdWallet (talk) 19:40, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@KB at NerdWallet: You did not add {{Edit COI}} which I have done so for you, next time do not ping me as I am a volunteer and would answer edit requests at my own convenience thanks. Lightoil (talk) 07:41, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

User:Lightoil: Apologies. That ping was not meant to be a demand. I'm aware that this site's independent editors are volunteers and didn't mean to suggest you're obligated to review material I put forward, or do things on my schedule. I'll use the {{edit COI}} code going forward. Thanks for adding it above. KB at NerdWallet (talk) 18:07, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Reply 30-AUG-2023

  Clarification requested  

• To expedite your request, it would help if you could provide the following information:

1. Exact, verbatim descriptions of any text and/or references to be removed should be given.^[1]
2. Reasons should be provided for each change.^[2] Currently, a batch list of reasons was provided (a list of reasons numbered 1-7), but it's not clear which reasons apply to which changes.

• In the section of text below titled Sample edit request, these two required items (among four altogether—two of which you've already provided) are shown as an example:

• Kindly open a new edit request below this reply post at your earliest convenience when ready to proceed with all four items from your request. Thank you!

Regards,  Spintendo  21:44, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

At User:Spintendo's request, I have put together a table that lays out my suggested changes in greater detail. This table, which you can click to view below, is a passage-by-passage breakdown that juxtaposes current passages of the History against my suggested revisions. It provides references both in reference tag form (so that the text is easy to copy and paste, as needed) and as external links. I also briefly explain why I'm suggesting each change.

If Spintendo or any other editors need further clarification from me, ask away and I'll see what I can do. Meantime, I'll step aside and let the editorial community do its thing. Thanks in advance to anyone who reviews these changes. KB at NerdWallet (talk) 21:12, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You will notice that in the table, there are no references included within the Current text column. In order to process your request, please provide those references.^[a] I will, for expediancy sake, allow those references to be inserted retroactively, even though such insertions would violate WP:REDACT. Please insert those references and then reactivate the request template. Thank you! Regards,  Spintendo  19:15, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

User:Spintendo, I've added references to all the "Current Text" in the table, so editors can compare where I've replaced references, added new ones, or left them as they are. I've also reopened the request. Please feel free to review. KB at NerdWallet (talk) 17:13, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Reply 12-SEP-2023

Below you will see where proposals from your request have been quoted with reviewer decisions and feedback inserted underneath, either accepting, declining or otherwise commenting upon your proposal(s). Please read the enclosed notes within the proposal review section below for information on each request.  Spintendo  22:41, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, User:Spintendo: Thanks for reviewing. I'll go through your approvals and rejections point-by-point here, so everything's organized and (relatively) easy to follow:

1. This rejection seems fair. I thought the article would be improved with a little more information about the company's founding, but I respect your judgment.

2. What I mean by "creating reference content" is that our staffers research a financial topic—for instance, the pros and cons of different varieties of credit cards—and then publish articles about them. These articles are fact-based resources with which consumers can make informed decisions. In this way, they are "reference content." In the cited Inc. Magazine piece, they describe it like this:

Does that clarify things? Feel free to suggest alternative phrasing if you think what I have is too jargon-y for the average Wikipedia reader.

3. You approved this one. Thank you.

4. Here's the existing passage within the Administration section. I've included the entire paragraph, so that you can see it's about corporate restructuring in general. The specific sentence I'm referring to is bolded.

And for your reference, if you scroll up on this Talk page, you will see that I previously discussed the Administration section with another independent editor. (I won't tag them here because I get the sense they don't want a COI editor pestering them.)

5. Again, seems fair. I'll trust your judgment, re: Know Your Money's notability.

6. Can I push back on this one? The funds raised by an IPO seem like an encyclopedic detail. It's a big event in a company's history. And this IPO was pretty widely covered. In addition to the previously cited Business Insider article, here are several reputable press outlets that reported on funds raised by NW's IPO, with quotes:

7. Approved, and I see that User:STEMinfo has already added it to the article. Appreciate it.

I know the above is a lot to digest. Just trying to be thorough, and make this article as good as it can be. Please work through it as you find the time, Spintendo. Thanks! KB at NerdWallet (talk) 19:59, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As far as your point #2, it is up to the COI editor to propose text to add to the article. I can only make inquiries. As far as number 4, thank you for providing the text from the article. I'll approve your request and remove the text from the article. Regards,  Spintendo  21:35, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

User:Spintendo: Appreciate the help with implementing point #4.

On your note in response to point #2, you said "It is not known what is meant by the phrase 'to create reference content'". Above, I tried to clarify what "to create reference content" means. Have I sufficiently defined that for you, or would you like me to rephrase that passage so it's easier for the average Wikipedia reader to understand?

Please let me know, and thanks again! KB at NerdWallet (talk) 18:50, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@KB at NerdWallet You have clarified it for me, but you have not written a proposed statement that can be added to the article that makes clarification to all readers. I await your proposal here on the talk page. Regards,  Spintendo  22:10, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

User:Spintendo: Okay, I'll revise that sentence and you can tell me if you approve of the new phrasing. Here's the old sentence I suggested:

And here's the new, hopefully clearer one:

So, if you were to implement this edit completely—it's row 2 in the table at the top of this request—you would be changing this passage:

To this:

Okay, I'll now let you review and make a decision. I appreciate your patience, working through the nuts and bolts of this request with me. Thanks, and talk soon! — Preceding unsigned comment added by KB at NerdWallet (talk • contribs) 11:47, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Reply 30-SEP-2023

 Declined Per WP:TOOMANYREFS. The edit request contains an instance where two references are bundled together:

1. In the text under the collapsed heading "Revised passage", the second sentence is sourced by two references: Talking Biz News and Inc..

This suggests that both Talking Biz News and Inc. equally reference the proposed text because both ref notes are bundled together. If one reference is usable for the proposed text, then only one reference should be used, not both references. If the instance where both references are actually sourcing different information then WP:INTEGRITY needs to be followed. Regards,  Spintendo  22:34, 30 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hey User:Spintendo: Sorry, I was under the impression that two sources at the end of a single sentence was in line with the site's content guidelines. To be totally clear about which sources verify which facts, I'll break it up into two sentences:

In January 2014, NerdWallet hired former reporters and editors from news outlets such as CNN and The Mercury News.^[1] These journalists were hired to research and write informational articles about financial topics for NerdWallet's website.^[2]

The TBN piece specifies that the journalists were hired from fairly large, reputable news outlets. And the Inc. piece describes, in greater detail than the TBN one, precisely what those folks were hired by NerdWallet to do. Does that work for you? KB at NerdWallet (talk) 18:10, 3 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It does indeed work for me. But as I recall, there was an additional sentence which preceded these two, something about the company "growing quickly" that you had asked to be included. Is that still a part of your requested additions, or are the corrected sentences above all that is to be added? Please advise and I will make the changes. When ready to proceed, kindly change the {{Edit COI}} template's answer parameter to read from |ans=y to |ans=n. Regards,  Spintendo  19:40, 3 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, great. Thanks for helping me refine the passage, User:Spintendo. And you're right that there was surrounding language. Here's the current passage:

And here is the revised passage, with those couple of hiring sentences we've agreed are solid:

In going back through this, I discovered a few minor errors and corrected them. The Xconomy article link is dead, so I created a citation with an archived link. I also fixed the sentence about 2014 users, to more closely reflect what the cited source says. And lastly, I lopped some redundant references off the end of the last sentence, to avoid a "too many refs" issue.

Please compare those two passages and tell me what you think. I believe what I've drafted is an improvement over the current passage because it organizes events chronologically and adds a little bit of detail to certain events, so that they're more legible for a general audience. But your mileage may vary. Thanks again! KB at NerdWallet (talk) 22:36, 6 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Unable to implement.

1. You've used the ref name "Xcon" in your proposed text. This ref name is already used in the article, however, the details in the citation template you've configured in your request under the Xcon name differ from the details that exist in the instances where that ref name is currently used in the article.
2. If implemented, the formatting you've created for your edit request will generate the Cite error: The named reference "Xcon" was defined multiple times with different content error message to display in the article's References section.^[a]
3. To implement your request, please ensure that the instances of the Xcon ref name in both the live article and in the requested additional text match each other in every respect.^[b]

Regards,  Spintendo  19:08, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Per User:Spintendo's feedback above, I'm asking that editors update a reference within the code of the article. The current version of the reference contains a dead link, so I've created one with an archived link.

Each iteration of this version of the reference:

<ref name=Xcon>{{cite web |last1=Tansey |first1=Bernadette |date=21 May 2015 |title=NerdWallet's Big Ambitions |url=http://www.xconomy.com/san-francisco/2015/05/21/nerdwallets-big-ambitions-personal-finance-app-aims-for-dominance/?single_page=true |publisher=[[Xconomy]] |access-date=June 28, 2015}}</ref>

Needs to be replaced with this version:

<ref name=Xcon>{{cite web |last1=Tansey |first1=Bernadette |date=21 May 2015 |title=NerdWallet's Big Ambitions |url=http://www.xconomy.com/san-francisco/2015/05/21/nerdwallets-big-ambitions-personal-finance-app-aims-for-dominance/?single_page=true |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20150610130618/http://www.xconomy.com/san-francisco/2015/05/21/nerdwallets-big-ambitions-personal-finance-app-aims-for-dominance/?single_page=true |archive-date=June 10, 2015 |publisher=[[Xconomy]] |access-date=June 28, 2015}}</ref>

The reference currently appears in the article five times, I've listed each existing sentence below, with the new version of the reference:

• In the first paragraph of History, at the end of the sentence: Its first product was a web application that provided comparative information about credit cards.^[1]
• Also in the first paragraph of History at the end of the phrase: by March 2014, the website had up to 30 million users.^[1]
• At the end of the first paragraph of History, at the end of the sentence: The following year, it raised $64 million in its first round of funding, at an estimated valuation of $500 million.^[2][1][3]
• In Products and services at the end of the phrase: Its web site is directed primarily towards Millennials^[1]
• Also in Products and services, at the end of the sentence: In exchange for new customers, affiliated banks pay NerdWallet a success fee.^[1]

This will allow anybody who's inclined to consult the cited article. Thanks! KB at NerdWallet (talk) 21:06, 10 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The COI editor needs to provide all of the verbatim text that needs to be changed, this includes the verbatim references and the verbatim text which accompanies those references. Currently, your request gives directions of where those referneces are located (and the corrected reference itself), but it does not provided the verbatim text which accompanies the reference to be changed. All of these items must be provided with the request.^[a] As Wikipedia is a volunteer project, this type of formatting is expected to be completed by the COI editor prior to submitting a request for review.

Regards,  Spintendo  22:17, 10 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

User:Spintendo: I think you missed the verbatim text in my post above, that is what I included in the bulleted list. The exact article text is there, with the precise reference locations included to make it easier to cut and paste.

As another option: would you like me to replace the reference instances myself? I'm hesitant to touch the article, as a COI editor, but this isn't an editorial issue. It's just making sure a particular reference is functional. That might be easier than going back and forth on trying to explain where each reference needs to be replaced, with me confused by your feedback and you confused by my post. I really don't want to take up a lot of your time with something that would be pretty quick for me to update. With your go-ahead, I can make the fix. Thanks, KB at NerdWallet (talk) 19:47, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I can handle the changes thank you. There is an instance where you have 3 references verifying the exact same sentence. This needs to be corrected. Regards,  Spintendo  20:38, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

User:Spintendo: Those three references are used in the text of the existing article. That's not my doing. I've provided the full references for them to help with making this narrow request, at your recommendation, that the Xcon reference be updated. Once we update the Xcon citation, we can discuss getting rid of the redundant ones, which my proposed revisions in the request above accomplish. Thanks! KB at NerdWallet (talk) 21:35, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That those three references may be currently used in the article is not the issue. You have requested that they be re-implemented with your request (because you've included them in your proposed text). I will not re-implement cases of WP:TOOMANYREFS. If you want the proposed passage to be included as part of your edit request, then those references need to be consolidated. Regards,  Spintendo  22:35, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Honestly, I'm not sure this is very constructive, unless one or more of the refs are not actually of any use (e.g. just press releases or other WP:PRIMARY). It's pretty routine (and often desirable, depending on ref. quality and potential controversiality of the claim) for a claim to have more than one citation, and WP:CITEBUNDLE / H:CITEMERGE stuff is actually entirely optional. I have to suggest that it would be more productive to focus on the actual claims and whether they are properly sourced, neutrally written and giving due weight, actually encyclopedic and not indiscriminate, not containing any original research, not written in mangled English, and otherwise compliant with policies and guidelines. We do not need to "stick it" to CoI editors with demands for things that are not actually required. Editors who don't want to fulfill a CoI edit request on some technicality rather than a policy-based objection should just leave the request open for another editor to deal with (in this case maybe one who'll inject a {{multiref}}, if the material otherwise checks out).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  19:32, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In reviewing COI edit requests, it's helpful if the COI editor and reviewer both guard against the possible overuse of sources. The "packing" of sources (whether unintentional or otherwise) can impart too much weight towards certain ideas. In the above, I saw instances where two or three references (bundled together) were discussing the same event. Whether these references existed in the article prior to the edit request or not, the COI editor wanted to carry over these references into the article as part of their request, which I objected to. As a compromise, I had asked them to increase their level of discrimination towards these sources, as I believed that the article would benefit from having an economy of references rather than an excess. Needless to say, I appreciate your concern and always value your input. Rest assured, there's no "sticking it" here going on. Regards,  Spintendo  03:34, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello again. I'm going to pause my requests above, as the review process has gotten very complicated and I'm not sure how to proceed. Instead, I'll propose what I think is a more straightforward request. I would like to add two brief new paragraphs be added to the Products and services section. Click the show button on the collapsible box in order to view:

This new content covers a pair of significant, relatively recent acquisitions NerdWallet has made. These acquisitions have meaningfully expanded the range of services the company provides its users, particularly small business owners. I'm thinking these paragraphs would go right at the end of the section, below all the existing content, but I'm open to suggestions from independent editors. Thanks, KB at NerdWallet (talk) 16:00, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Without really poring over the source material, this seems reasonble to me, apart from a few style quibbles. While neither of these acquistions appear to be notable, they aren't indiscriminate trivia within the context of the company's history, adn seem well enough referenced. FinTech Futures is not red-flagged at WP:RSN and seems to be a legit publication. TechCrunch appears to be assessed at RSN as good enough for typical article material, but not for WP:N purposes, which aren't relevant here. Ditto with Denver Business Journal. Both of them write a lot of business news based on press releases, but have editorial control and seem to engage in dilligence to make sure they're not spreading lies or other nonsense

On the style matters: Wikipedia would not write "On The Barrelhead" but "On the Barrelhead" per MOS:THECAPS and MOS:TM. We really don't care how the company prefers to style it; we do not engage in weird stylization (especially over-capitalization) to make trademarkholders happy. (And most external sources also render it "On the Barrelhead"). Second, creating one-sentence "micro-paragraphs" like this is rarely good writing in general, and not on Wikipedia unless the sentences are very unrelated and we expect them to develop into fuller paragraphs later. These two should be combined into a single paragraph, since they are both relatedly about company acquisitions and WP is unlikely to have more to say about them later. Next, "that used proprietary data" seems to be a grammar error (wrong verb tense) for "that uses proprietary data". "Platform" in both sentences about On the Barrelhead is a pointless buzzword bingo item that is basically meaningless to users; the first occurrence needs to be replaced with something that actually conveys a more concrete meaning and concisely describes what the company (now subsidiary) does; the second could stand, since replacing the first with something concrete gives the second "platform" a clear referent, but someone might think of a replacement anyway. And "source of financial advice" in the first sentence has similar issues; "loan-applications processor" would be better, judging from my review of what the website is actually for. On the Barrelhead I'm less certain of since I didn't go over it in detail.

A bit of advice for all WP:COI editors: We know you are here wearing a PR hat, but you really need to take that hat off and put on an encyclopedia-writer hat when constructing even a couple of sentences for possible consumption here. Adjust your mindset and your focus to what the reader (of an encyclopedia, not a press release or a company website) needs and expects, not what the company would want in its marketing materials. You are not here to persuade anyone of anything, sell them anything, or impress them, you are here to give them unadored, unmanipulated facts in as clear language as possible. All your experience in "business writing" is like bringing guitar lessons to a piano keyboard. The underlying theory isn't alien, but the technique is radically different, and so will be the output.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  20:03, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

User:SMcCandlish: I really appreciate the detailed feedback. I'll place a revised version of my proposed content here:

Per your suggestions, I have:

• Combined four sentences into a single paragraph
• Changed description of what Fundera does, so that it's more precise
• Fixed On The Barrelhead vs. On the Barrelhead issue
• Changed description of what On the Barrelhead does, to make it less jargon-y
• Changed "used" to "uses"

Regarding the couple of On the Barrelhead's sentences: most press coverage I've seen of the acquisition, including the cited source, uses "platform," so that's the word I landed on. (Other sources: PYMNTS, Fintech Global.) But I take your point that it's a vague term. I've decided to revise that passage so that OTB is now described as "a fintech company" that had developed a unique process for generating loan and credit recommendations. Both instances of "platform" are gone, and I think it's a little more reader-friendly. If someone doesn't know exactly what fintech means, they can navigate over to its Wiki article to get a better sense of the term. Anyway, that's my proposed solution. Let me know what you think.

Again, thanks for the detailed response. In particular, I'll keep in mind what you said about drafting language that's clear and unadorned. Cheers, KB at NerdWallet (talk) 22:22, 9 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Proprietary data" and "personalized" in that material is more marketing lingo and not helpful. But the bulk of this seems fine to me and I'll put it in the article. As always with CoI edits, someone might revert and want different sources or something.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  22:33, 9 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Done [8].  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  22:37, 9 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks again, User:SMcCandlish. I also wanted to propose a rewrite of the first paragraph of the Products and services section, if you're interested. I'll place the existing paragraph and my revised version here, so you can easily compare:

To briefly explain my revisions:

1. Rewrote the first sentence to reflect what NerdWallet offers, as opposed to what it seeks to do. (I believe "platform" is okay here, because I've defined it as a website and app, but correct me if I'm wrong.)
2. Rewrote the second sentence so that it contains more concrete details about how NW allows its user to compare products and calculate costs
3. Cut the "website aimed at Millenials" clause. That comes from a 2015 Xconomy article. Relevant quote: "Chen says NerdWallet’s website design is skewed somewhat to attract millennials." Given that the cited article's claim isn't that strong ("skewed somewhat") and it's eight years old, I think it's reasonable to strike this. And for whatever my perspective as a NW employee is worth, the company wants to be a financial advice resource for everybody, not just folks within a certain age range.
4. Refined the third sentence so that it's more explicit. Rather than saying NW "provides information," I've clarified that it has articles written and researched by its staff. And then I've provided a brief description of the kind of information those articles contain.

I hope that what I'm putting forward is seen as an improvement. My goal is not to have the section read like a brochure of all the great things NerdWallet offers. I just want the information to be specific and relatively up-to-date. I'll now step aside and let either SMcCandlish or another independent editor review. KB at NerdWallet (talk) 17:07, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not a one-stop shop for getting CoI edits done; my interest in this stuff is quite low. But I'll generally make time to help make wording more encyclopedic. My initial overview of this is that "The company's goal" (or something like that, "The principal business of the company", etc.) tells the reader something more useful than "The company has a platform ...". NW is using its website and app to perform a business function, to execute its business plan. That it "has" them and likes to call them collectively a "platform" isn't very informative. Wikipedia can't say that a company "provides ... guidance" because that's a value judgment that what the company does is actually guiding rather than attempting to be guiding; "provides ... advice" is the proper phrasing. The rewrite loses "reviews", which might or might not be intentional. Also lost mention of insurance, of college loans in particular, of stock trading in particular, of credit card selection and benefits in particular. Some of these may be intentional, in favor of more general mentions of credit cards and investments, but I'm not sure, especially since the general "banking" was changed to the possibly over-specific "checking accounts". WP hyphenates compound modifiers, thus "loan, net-worth, and credit-score calculators". Several terms should be linked: net-worth, credit-score, credit cards, mortgages, etc.; remember that children use our site for their homework. Websites don't write articles; people do. And compress redundant wording. So, something like "NerdWallet staff also produce articles on financial concepts such as investing, retirement planning, and taxes." Which financial subjects are "basic" or not is a subjective matter. WP probably isn't a position to claim that NW staff are doing "research" in an encyclopedic sense; the cited Inc. source doesn't use that word, and for all WP knows, the research could be done by external contractors. If someone's article isn't just a silly opinion piece then it's already implicit that research of some general kind went into it; no need to specify that. The Millennials bit seems reasonable to remove since support for the idea is weak (a reviewer's opinion about the "look and feel" of a website, not analysis of a business model), and it doesn't seem pertinent to how the site is today (dunno about the app). PS: The above notes are just based on my parsing of the two passages, not a review of what all the cited sources are saying in detail, so I'm not certain there aren't any further "Do the sources actually confirm this?" issues.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  19:02, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

User:SMcCandlish: Thanks for the feedback. I've adjusted the language and formatting according to your instructions. Specifically, I have:

• Changed the first sentence back to what it currently is in the article (you make a good point about it being more descriptive than what I've proposed)
• Added hyphens and links to "credit-score" and "net-worth"
• Combined the last two sentences into one simple sentence about NerdWallet's written content
• Added links to investing, retirement planning, and taxes

I believe that addresses all your concerns, but please let me know if anything else needs fixing. Cheers! KB at NerdWallet (talk) 18:58, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, User:SMcCandlish! Just checking to see if you've had a chance to take a look at what I've presented above. Please let me know if you have any further questions or concerns. Thanks! KB at NerdWallet (talk) 18:34, 27 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Also cleaned up citation formatting, date format, linking, punctuation, a typo, etc.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  18:56, 14 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much, User:SMcCandlish! KB at NerdWallet (talk) 05:57, 18 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]