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This talk page is for discussing entries to this specific list article - ie entries for List of Freemasons (E - Z). For centralized discussion on generalized issues or questions (that might concern all of our "List of Freemasons" articles) please post at the main article talk page: Talk:List of Freemasons. Thank you Blueboar (talk) 12:11, 6 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned references in List of Freemasons (E - Z)

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of List of Freemasons (E - Z)'s orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "PHOHIO":

  • From Coleman Young: Gray, David (2012). The History of the Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Ohio F&AM 1971 – 2011: The Fabric of Freemasonry. Columbus, Ohio: Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Ohio F&AM. p. 414. ISBN 978-0615632957.
  • From Nathaniel R. Jones: Gray, David (2012). The History of the Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Ohio F&AM 1971 – 2011: The Fabric of Freemasonry. Columbus, Ohio: Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Ohio F&AM. p. 414. ISBN 978-0615632957.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 13:01, 21 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]


Some patience please... we are in the process of splitting our List of Freemasons article into smaller chunks... and some of the citations from that page got screwed up in the cut and paste. Blueboar (talk) 14:24, 21 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
OK... I think all the orphans have been fixed. Blueboar (talk) 14:55, 21 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Should female freemasons be included?

As above. Should members of female masonic lodges be included in the list? I was about to ad Hedvig Eleonora von Fersen.--Aciram (talk) 16:41, 27 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It is very uncommon for women to be masons from my understanding, but if the officially were masons, I say include them. I think there are only 5-6? Jlmeredith (talk) 02:42, 3 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Gerry McCann

Recently added (and removed, and re-added, etc.). Time to discuss. First we have the WP:BLP/WP:RS issue. This is POLICY folks... We can not say McCann is a Mason without solidly reliable sources that explicitly say he is one. Second, I have to question whether McCann is really notable enough for the list. There is no stand alone article on him (clicking on his name redirects to: Disappearance of Madeleine McCann... ie he is not considered notable enough for an article on his own.) Thoughts and comments? Blueboar (talk) 01:57, 19 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Personally I have no problem with adding him - IF and only IF reliable sources can be found for his membership. WegianWarrior (talk) 08:18, 19 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
And there's an article about him. Eric Cable  |  Talk  17:01, 19 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
What article? Blueboar (talk) 19:00, 19 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, what I meant to imply was "and if there is an article about him as there is currently not one." Eric Cable  |  Talk  15:13, 20 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
ah... thanks for clarifying. Blueboar (talk) 15:38, 20 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Jimmy Savile

I think it worthwhile to more fully explain this revert by Fiddlersmouth...

The source that Jahbulon-13 cited to support inclusion was "Freemasons Yearbook - 2005/6 Grand Lodge of England". It seems extremely unlikely that this source would support the information that Mr. Savile had become a member of Leeds Lodge No. 9867 ... since that lodge did not even exist in 2006. According to the lodge website, it was constituted in 2011... a full five years after the 2005/6 yearbook was published. Blueboar (talk) 15:18, 28 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It's also worth mentioning that the yearbook lists Grand Officers and Provincial Grand Officers, and doesn't mention individual lodges. It won't have mentioned Savile at all.
Both Savile and McCann were/are Roman Catholics, which greatly reduces the likelihood of their joining the brotherhood. You need a dispensation from your Bishop, and it's still discouraged. The Savile edit looks like a deliberate falsification, which makes it hard to assume good faith. Fiddlersmouth (talk) 16:07, 28 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
In other words... the yearbook would not have supported the edit, even if Leeds Lodge No. 9867 had been in existence in 2005/6? Hmmm... that certainly does make it appear to be a deliberate falsification. Blueboar (talk) 17:21, 28 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Giuseppe Mazzini

This is probably the only entry here referenced with a text that says he probably wasn't a mason. Denslow claims Mazzini was Grand Master of the Grand Orient, which he certainly wasn't. Garibaldi offered him an honorary Grand Mastership, and he refused. He may have undergone some sort of Masonic initiation in prison, but his letters indicate that he thought it was all gibberish, and really didn't have time for Freemasonry. I think this is just one of these things that was repeated so often, Denslow thought it was true. Fiddlersmouth (talk) 20:28, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Even highly reliable sources like Denslow can contain the occasional error. I have no no problem with at least a temporary removal. We can always add Mazzini back if someone can come up with additional sources. Blueboar (talk) 12:18, 28 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Is this source reliable enough?

Recently added: Jake Shade, American politician, Queen City Lodge No. 131 in Cumberland, Maryland

The source is: here. It's a local government website. I think it likely that Mr. Shade is a Mason... so I have not removed him from the list... but what concerns me is that the source gets the name of the lodge wrong (calling it: "Queen City Masons Lodge No. 131"). This tells me that they did not do much in the way of fact checking. So... what is the consensus... is this reliable enough to continue to list Mr. Shade or not? Blueboar (talk) 13:37, 19 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I would say yes it is an OK source. It is not uncommon for non-Masons to call a Masonic Lodge a "Masons Lodge" even though it's incorrect. Eric Cable  |  Talk  13:43, 19 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
OK... It was iffy for me. I will leave him in the list for now. (I also have a question as to whether Bro. Shade is notable enough, but I am addressing that at the bio article.) Blueboar (talk) 15:54, 19 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Well, on that subject I would say that being the youngest elected official in a state is interesting enough to have an article. Eric Cable  |  Talk  17:57, 19 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Fixing Denslow

OK, I noticed that the inline cite for Denslow on this page does not match that on the A-D page. I therefore am...

Adding George Howard Earle III (who is listed in Denslow) to the top of the list so Denslow would be cite #1
Adding the inline cite to that individual and using the same inline cite code as on the A-D page
Removing the inline cite from Ettore Ferrari and replacing it with <ref name=Denslow/>

Thanks Eric Cable  |  Talk  15:33, 4 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Georges Martin

Needs a new source; the archive.org webpage currently sourced is basically illegible without altering the webpage display. MSJapan (talk) 16:52, 1 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

How about these?

?? Eric Cable  |  Talk  18:26, 1 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The Masonic Dictionary is all mined from Mackey. I'd use the DH reference. Fiddlersmouth (talk) 22:14, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, DH=?. I have a copy of Mackey at home. I will look and see if Martin is listed in it. Eric Cable  |  Talk  12:16, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Adding 19 to letter I from Denslow

As I continue to work on Denslow, I have gone through the entire letter "I" and am adding the following...

 Eric Cable  |  Talk  12:08, 27 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Letter Y from Denslow

I have gone all the way through the letter Y in Denslow and am adding the following individuals:

 Eric Cable  |  Talk  14:59, 28 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

is this list only for american and european. cause i know a couple one from canada, stephane hamel, franco huard vice president du clipsas, and many more names i didnt see from there loge in mtl, canada... 2001:18C0:907:B400:3313:19D7:7068:4D48 (talk) 04:28, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

too much information?

Is the sentence in bold needed? This strikes me as the sort of thing that can be left to the bio article, so I am tempted to take it out... but if the confusion relates to Masonry (ie people claim the father was a Mason, and he wasn't) then it is probably helpful to keep it. Blueboar (talk) 15:16, 25 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

If it's stated in his article, it is not needed here. If it isn't stated in his article, then there is where is should be moved. WegianWarrior (talk) 19:44, 25 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'd dump it, but it also screams "Factcheck!" - how much of what is there is from Denslow? Is it the last line, or the whole thing? I mean, he was a veteran of a war that lasted over two years, but was able to go to an annual meeting two or three times during that period? That's extraordinary timing. There is also no mention of his Masonic membership (nor his extraordinary attendance record) in his own article. His father died when he was 11, and also has a ship named after him, so I don;t think we need to dab it here. MSJapan (talk) 23:54, 25 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Picky picky picky. Eric Cable  |  Talk  03:59, 26 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Cite error: The named reference Denslow was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

John Heath

John Heath (founder of Phi Beta Kappa) keeps being added... without citation. Knowing that many collegiate fraternities were started by Freemasons, I did a quick on-line search to see if I could find something to support inclusion. However, all I found were a few Illuminati oriented conspiracy theory sites. On the other hand, I found this scholarly paper, which clearly says that while several of the other founders were Freemasons, Heath was not. I would go with the scholarly source. One thing the source points out... Heath was only 15 at the time he helped to found Phi Beta Kappa... too young to have beeen a Mason. Blueboar (talk) 12:32, 21 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Time to break the list into smaller sub-articles?

The E-Z article is getting larger (my thanks to all the editors who have been adding more entries)... perhaps it is time to split it into E-M and M-Z (Or similar)? Thoughts? Blueboar (talk) 20:55, 23 December 2016 (UTC) Blueboar (talk) 20:55, 23 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Absolutely. Fiddlersmouth (talk) 01:02, 24 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I was never in favor of splitting the list in the first place. Eric Cable  !  Talk  14:25, 24 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
P.S. My user space says I'm retired, but that was just to get some Wikibullies off my ass. Eric Cable  !  Talk  14:19, 24 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
OK, (I just finished the letter N) I while back I did a search on the percentage of last names for each letter of the alphabet in the U.S. just to get a guess as to which letters were going to be the longest (after spending ages adding 386 names to the letter B from Denslow.) Now that I've completed going through the letters A, B, I, J, N, Q, U, V, X, Y, and Z I have taken the actual counts of people added from Denslow for those letters and compared it to the averages from the above-named search. Based on that I will now estimate the counts of people in Denslow that could be added for the remaining letters:
C – 495
D – 312
E – 100
F – 277
G – 294
H – 619
K – 218
L – 241
M – 589
O – 106
P – 294
R – 312
S – 554
T – 100
W – 365
That's nearly 4900 more people to add (again, just an estimate). Maybe based on these numbers the list can be split into appropriately sized sub pages. Eric Cable  !  Talk  16:56, 4 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Here is my suggested break-down:
A – D
E – J
K – P
Q – Z

 Eric Cable  !  Talk  17:01, 4 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I agree we ought to be splitting this (E-Z) into two, or even three, lists. Of course this is quite a big job (if we're to maintain references), which is probably why nobody is jumping to make the first move! Timothy Titus Talk To TT 14:32, 28 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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Nicolae Balcescu

I kept looking for ,Nicolae Balcescu,1848 , freemason and such on your from A to Z list and i cannot find him listed as he died free too in Italy in Capuchin Monastery, or maybe he was only French mason or etc, Cheers, razu

Request - Thomas Ellwood Rose

An anonymous editor added the following request to the article. I have moved it here:

"Please add Col. Thomas Ellwood Rose, Brev. Brig. Gen. orchestrated the confederate Libby Prison break. http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/thomasel.htm"

--Ken Gallager (talk) 19:34, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Move mason name entires to a table format?

I would be interested in helping move the individual named entries to a table. This would allow for sorting, and filtering, as well as making entry organization easier.

Is this something that has been discuss previously? Jlmeredith (talk) 02:33, 3 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I want to join illuminati

please help me with all your hearts 102.22.200.1 (talk) 21:43, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I want to join illuminati 102.22.200.1 (talk) 21:44, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Trimming dates rationale

In the interests of WP:NOTGENEOLOGY I've trimmed the dates of birth and death to years only. This gives the reader an accurate idea of when a particular Mason lived. If the reader wants more info, they can go to the particular Wikipedia article for the notable Mason. This gives us a cleaner and more consistent listing. Also, non-notable (e.g. no WP names) are removed. This is IAW WP:WTAF. – S. Rich (talk) 17:03, 27 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_Freemasons_(E%E2%80%93Z)