Battle of Honey Springs

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Further development

Perhaps some of the chapter headings in Johnson's Horses of the German Army in World War II suggest a useful framework for improving this article's coverage -- possibly helpful in terms of horses in any of the armies of the Second World War?

  • Suitability of different breeds?
  • Employment of horses?
  • Selection and training of personnel?
  • Supply in the field?
  • The veterinary service?
  • The remount system?

This was just a potentially plausible thought .... --Tenmei (talk) 20:42, 26 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Regal, Olga, and Upstart

If an appropriate way for the link to the article Regal, Olga, and Upstart cannot be found, could it be added to the "See Also" section? Chrisrus (talk) 23:14, 10 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'd put the equine recipients article in the see also. Maybe there is a way to work a paragraph about them into the article too, feel free to mess with it. Montanabw(talk) 18:21, 11 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It might be a bit difficult to work three brave London police horses into the text of an article presently structured to cover the collective military use of the long-suffering animals by national armies, world-wide. However a link under "See also" sounds an excellent idea. Buistr (talk) 03:22, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

About Poland

Prior to WW2 total population of horses in Poland was about 4.5 million. Army planned to mobilise about 200 thousands in addition to approximately 50 thousand in regular service. From this about 50.000 for cavalry, 100.000 for military train and 100.000 for draught of artillery and other technical troops. Worth to mention is that quality of horses was relatively poor as an effect of enormous drainage made in years 1914-1920. Both during world war one, and later polish-bolshevik war, had place large requisitions and confiscates made by armies passing territory of later Poland. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.20.106.201 (talk) 20:54, 8 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Gebirgsjäger

Maybe there should be mention of the Gebirgsjäger, who were equipped with mules. Even the modern unit has them.Sitalkes (talk) 00:12, 7 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Lead section

It appears that the lead sections is inadequate and should be reworded. The Soviet Union according to Walter Scott Dunn, deployed 3,5 million horses for transport, while the German army 2,75 million horses. Lend-Lease played a curcial factor in supporting the Red Army. Dircovic (talk) 11:31, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Here some snippets from Walter Scott Dunn's The Soviet economy and the Red Army, 1930–1945:

Page 225:

The Red Army used horses as mounts for cavalry and to pull artillery and wagons. During the 1930s the Soviets had maintained a large cavalry force. At the beginning of the war, additional divisions were mobilized. Many new armies formed in the fall of 1941 had two cavalry divisions assigned. But because the cavalry suffered heavy losses in the winter battles, the Russians disbanded most of the divisions. In 1942 many of the remaining divisions took part in the counterattack at Stalingrad and in offensives in later years.
In the early years of the war the horse was most valuable in transport units. Given the poor state of Russian roads, the horse played a major role on the Eastern Front. The horse could cope with any condition better than wheeled vehicles and sometimes better than tracked vehicles. Poor roads, rough terrain, mud, snow, ice, swamps, forests, and other obstacles delayed but did not stop horses. However, in rough going the load would have to be reduced, the length of the work day shortened, or the number of horses to pull a wagon increased. In very rough going, two or all three of the restrictions might be required. Horse-drawn transport and cavalry was at its best during the two muddy periods, in the spring and in late fall. In these seasons the ground and unimproved roads became impassable to wheeled vehicles.
Both the Russian Army and the German Army relied heavily on horses for transport. The Germans used 2.75 million horses and mules in World War II, the Russians 3.5 million.

Page 236:

The horse played a significant role both in the offensive capability of the Red Army and in supply. However, the Germans relied more heavily on the horse in its logistical system because of the shortage of trucks and fuel. Because of the difficulty in caring for horses compared to motor vehicles and the greater speed and flexibility of the trucks, the Soviets had a decided advantage over the Germans in logistics. While German campaigns were lost because of supply failures, after the spring of 1943 supply problems merely limited Soviet offensives and delayed their operations. As the Germans were continually retreating into a denser rail network, the dependence of the Germans on the railroad and the horse-drawn wagons was not a crucial factor to them in the last two years of the war, although it did limit their capability to move divisions from one sector to another. The Russians, on the other hand, steadily reduced their reliance on horses for supply with increasing numbers of trucks, making it possible to sustain offensives despite skillful German defense. Toward the end of the war, the Red Army made increasing use of the horse in combat to provide heavily armed mobile infantry support for their tanks. While the role of the horse shrank in supply, it increased in combat, a fitting situation for horse and its long tradition in battle.
Lend-lease made a major contribution to the successful offensives launched by the Red Army in 1944. The Red Army became a far more modern army than the German Army, which still relied on horses for supply and for towing; artillery. The only motorized unit in a German infantry regiment was the antitank company. The motorized Russian divisions moved faster and farther than the Germans.

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Grazing on grass alone rendered horses unfit for work

How so? Isn't grass their natural, nearly 100% diet? Jim.henderson (talk) 02:15, 24 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Belligerent armies table

Some of the cells in the table of horse quantities in the Belligerent Armies section have nothing but "...". It needs to be clarified in the article what this means. -Rolypolyman (talk) 16:14, 12 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

german automotive industry lacking?

The lead contains the following: "Horse-drawn transportation was most important for Germany, as it was relatively lacking in natural oil resources and automotive industry." - I added a {{dubious}}, as while i both believe the importance and the lack of oil, the lack of an automotive industry seems dubious. I mean, in 1932 the automotive industry was big enough to allow for four major brands to combine into Auto Union, and just from the top of my head, without any research, i can name NSU Motorenwerke and Daimler-Benz as other major manufacturers, not to speak of German Labour Front/Volkswagen. If anyone has a good source for "Germany needed horses because its automotive industry was lacking", please provide it. Thanks a lot. Lommes (talk) 21:09, 7 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't find a reliable source (didn't look hard), but apparently it is true. The German automotive industry just wasn't all that tremendously huge. The American auto industry was -- Detroit. Britain back then had a thriving auto industry I guess. And, the German army was really really big. And after all they did build hella tanks and trucks and halftracks for their numerous armored and mobile infantry divisions. Taken together, it makes sense. I think it's best to replace the tag with a "citation needed". Herostratus (talk) 05:00, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Using a search with the phrase "motorization rate" found this statement " The density of vehicles per 100 inhabitants in Germany was only one fourth that of France and one third of England’s density, see Statistisches Jahrbuch für das Deutsche Reich (1933), p. 84. In Italy, the density was only half that of Germany, see H. Uhlfelder (1930), p. 11" GraemeLeggett (talk) 05:42, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, thanks. Herostratus (talk) 12:31, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The source for that statement (I should have added it earlier) is Richard Vahrenkamp. Motorization and Autobahn Projects in Germany in the Interbellum p150.
Tooze, Wages of Destruction may also have something on the state of German automotive industry. The German Army had only motorised about a quarter of its divisions in early war years; the completely mobile war of North Africa campaign is atypical of both German and Italian armies. Germany was both an industrial society and an agrarian one - seem to recall there were times when soldiers were released to bring in the harvest, they were also released to work in munitions factories. A googlebooks search of Wages says in the 30s Berlin had 4 million inhabitants and about 50,000 cars GraemeLeggett (talk) 16:58, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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